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2012年9月21日 星期五

[轉載]李永波專訪主持人柴靜回應各方提問

 央視節目《看見》播出李永波專訪之後, 有許多媒體希望可以採訪專訪李永波的主持人柴靜, 但是各方邀約太多, 於是她整理出一些問題, 針對這些問題一一回答.

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 專訪李永波節目播出後,一些媒體發來採訪要求,希望我回應一些問題,在這裏一併回答,不再一一回覆了。謝謝。


1、您是第一次採訪李永波吧?為何選擇有爭議的人物?

  我們在採訪一個人物之前,只有一個問題要問“公眾想瞭解他嗎?”如果想,那麼“為什麼是這個人在這個事件中做出這個選擇?”,我的職業要求不是做出評判,而是報導他這個行為背後的因果。

  以往有過一種聲音,覺得人物訪問節目不要報導爭議性人物,但是爭議出現,說明社會中新的判斷已經開始生長,新舊力量交相彙集,激蕩中正可以看見社會變化發展的軌跡和方向。一個公共電視臺,在爭議中理應提供事實,引起思索,才能平息想像,消解不必要的衝突。不去報導這樣的人物,才是漠視自己的公共責任。《看 見》珍惜這樣的報導可能,希望我們能善用。


2、在你採訪交鋒中,是否感覺李永波過於強勢?
 
  觀眾留言說:“看這期節目的時候,有點兒看李陽家暴那期的感覺。原因在於被訪者很強勢,而且他們身上有著較多的爭議的東西。但這次沒有李陽採訪的攻守狀態,沒有“水花四濺。”

  這是因為採訪李陽那期後,盧安克的話曾對我有影響,他說:“面對一個具有非常強烈又獨立想法的大人。如果你對你的採訪要表現什麼沒有目的,他也沒有什麼要對抗的,而能很自然地表露他自己的東西,不需要在“對抗”上浪費他的口才,我想這就已經夠了。”

  有觀眾說“你這次很小心翼翼”,這個詞也對,因為我採訪的同時也在反觀自己,是否能夠沒有加諸於人的目的,只是引述多方的看法,希望他回應這些疑問。我的任務不是說服誰,而是呈現他本來的面目。

  強勢的背後,是需要理解的更深社會心理,就象一位讀者看到的是:“現代體育文明與我們這個擁有古老文明、急需證明自身正在強大的發展中國家的焦躁情緒的對比。”

  盧安克還說過另一句話:“如果理解了,說一句話,和帶著反感說一句話,效果是不一樣的”


3、《看見》播出後,網友反映巨大,有嚴厲批評的,有支持李永波的,李永波的思維是否反映了當今世界的價值觀?利用規則,唯金牌、唯利益至上?
 
  嗯,我不敢說李永波反映了當今世界的價值觀,我覺得每個人都只反映自己的價值觀。

  價值討論的意義,並不一定能保證有共識,只能增進人們理解別人為什麼和對什麼問題,作出了與自己不同的選擇,以提高我們對價值選擇的自覺度與敏感度。

  認識到這個道理,是這次採訪對我來說的最大收穫。

  博客後有位觀眾的留言說:“看這期節目我最大的收穫就是,當我看不慣一件事情,除了怒斥,還可以靜下心來看看對方的轉變,在轉變中尋找機會,救贖自己的憤怒不平。歸根結底,要盡力影響周圍的人,營造更適合良性競爭的氛圍。”


4、你認為李永波為何能如此堅定地活在自己的世界裏?活在自己的價值觀體系中?

  我倒沒覺得他“如此堅定”地“活在自己的世界裏”,在節目裏你可以看到他對外界輿論的內心反應和反復思量,對於林丹與李宗偉的比賽,和兩次讓球風波,他都沒回避,現在與當時的看法都不同,認為現在可以接受觀眾給外國人加油,認為儘量要避免讓球的發生,不要傷害他人-----這都是他的變化。

  如果心懷成見,很容易只看到自己已經形成的定見,思想的變化需要有縫隙,讓空氣進去,才能發生搖擺,這個不光對李永波,對觀看者也一樣。


5、有媒體評論的標題是“誰給了李永波大放厥詞的權力?”,你怎麼看?

   這個“大放厥詞”在現代語境裏有人身貶低之意,看上去寒意閃閃,媒體的正式評論用這樣的詞讓人不安----李永波作為一個公民,有言論的自由,不需要誰額外賦予。

  李永波表達了他的觀點,並沒有辱駡反對他觀點的人,也沒有剝奪別人批評他的權力----在節目中,我們也陳述了對他批評的聲音,但批評不是羞辱,反思不是聲討。

  這篇評論中說李永波“一支金牌之師的領軍人,卻將體育精神置於不顧,一切以金牌(錢)至上”…… “為了謀財而不擇手段。”這個說法是否太武斷?李永波在節目中已經回答過金牌意味著什麼,說的並不是錢。

  媒體評論涉及到對他人動機和道德的判斷時,我覺得是否準確些,留些餘地為好?選擇性地使用和放大論據,容易有失公允,也沒有讓人信服的力量。

  發一段我常常用來反思自己工作的話,與這位同行共勉:“‘事實’陳述使用那些具有可共同確認詞義的字詞,如“圓形”“木頭”“有毒物質”等等。而‘看法’陳述使用的字詞是個人理解的,如“美好”、“醜陋”、“折騰”、“胡鬧”。事實說:‘請你核實’;看法說:‘我說對,就沒錯’。事實陳述是謙虛的、協商的,而看法陳述則是傲慢的、獨語的。”


6、採訪結束時,李永波轉身走了,你當時是否有情緒,怎麼看他這麼做?

  結尾處他離開了,沒有告別,有些人認為這個動作不夠禮貌,他離開確實是要趕飛機,這個我在節目中解釋過了,至於離開的方式?我只覺得他的任何反應,都是加深對他理解的契機。

  如果在四五年前,我大概會站起來,追上去繼續問。現在我坐在那裏沒動,不用再追加什麼,也不會把他這個動作理解為針對誰而發的-----他離開的方式映射 的是他對這個提問的反應,我們要做的只是呈現這個動作,不刻意剪掉,不濫加以解釋,也不誇張使用,就讓它保持原樣就可以。

  我們尊重觀眾的智慧,他們會有自己的判斷。


7、李永波把問題歸結於規則問題,又從自己和隊員的角度強調了“唯金牌論”,你同意他說的嗎?你對倫敦奧運會羽毛球隊消極比賽的事件的最終觀點是什麼?

  記者的職業要求,不是同意或者不同意採訪對象的觀點,是呈現一個人的本來面目和真實想法。追溯這個看法形成的來源,再觀察這個看法在變動不居的時期裏,受各種力量影響,將向何處發展。

 內容來源, 柴靜博客: http://blog.sina.com.cn/s/blog_48b0d37b0102eixa.html

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